Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Blueprint brought to you by Brilliant Pathways. I'm your host, Manny Tejeda. In this forward thinking podcast, we explore the evolving challenges and opportunities in preparing students for college and career success.
Offering expert insights, actionable strategies and real life stories to help listeners better support young people as they draw their future. Welcome to another episode of the Blueprint where we explore explore the ever changing landscape of higher education in the workplace. Today I'm joined by Gregory Herman, which is a CFES former Scholar, and you'll hear me talk a lot about what Greg has done over the years. I've had the pleasure of knowing Greg since our college days back at the University of Vermont. But today you're going to hear a little bit more about his life before college, after college, and then what he's doing now. So I am delighted to welcome you, Greg, to the Blueprint.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Welcome. Thank you so much, Manny. Always a pleasure to take part in anything CFES related. It's a near and dear to my heart. Somehow I always wind up talking about it or referencing CFES and how it helped me week to week, month to month. There's never a month that goes by that doesn't come up in September. Some form and fun fact, if I. Not if, when I open up my own school, it's going to be called Blueprint.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Nice Blueprint Prep.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: So here first.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, Greg, can you share a little bit about your story, things that you've done since high school. So walk us through kind of your, your own timeline of, of events of what you've been up to. Who was Greg in ninth grade and who was Greg today?
[00:01:49] Speaker B: This is like actually a full circle moment for me every time I'm attend my daughter's high school. She's in ninth grade.
And I can't believe I'm even saying this, that I'm getting old. But to have my daughter in the same grade that I can remember vividly is like, mind blowing to me. So she attends Carlos Spelman High School right now. I too attended that school in ninth grade. I attended there from September to November and then I had to transfer schools, right? So I transferred schools. My dad incarcerated November 2003 and he was paying my tuition, so I had to transfer schools. I was out of school for a whole month before my mom was able to get me into another school. So I ended up going to a school locally in Harlem called Watley. And I went to Watley in 2004 of my second semester of freshman year.
And I was not the happiest I knew that there was better. I had just left an amazing school and I wasn't too happy about Whatley. And my plan was to leave Watley High School after my ninth grade year and go to a different school. In the midst of me transferring out, a woman by the name of Ms. Roberts, she called my house personally and said, hey, we're starting these programs. I have these two programs in mind. One's called avid, which was a college bound program and other program is called then it was foundation for Excellent Schools fes. And she said, I looked at your transcript, I see that your grades are great. I want you to take part in this program and be one of our leaders. I spoke to my dad about it and he was like, just give it a shot. So I ended up staying in Whateley in 10th grade, 10th through 12th grade. And it was probably the best decision I made because I often speak about, I always knew what college was for me. I just didn't know the how. Through CFES and Rick and Karen and Missy, they gave me the how, all of the mentorships and the peer mentoring programs and allowing us to run the different workshops in Fordham University, speaking at the different conferences. It gave me the experience, exposure I needed to college, but also gave me leadership opportunities while in high school. All those things led up to me going to a university, the FAFSA form, all the things that my parents had no idea how to figure out, how to navigate thanks to the program. They gave me such a leg up and I'm ever forever admitted to the program. Which is why anytime I hear anything about cfes, it's always a green light for me. I went to three college tours through CFES from 10th to 12th grade. I visited my dream school because of CFES, which is Morehouse College. And I got into Morehouse College, but the money was not right in terms of financial aid. So again, Rick and Karen being Rick and Karen and saying, hey, you know what, you should also try uvm University of Vermont. It's a good program, we have connections there. So I was like, you know what? I'll give it a shot. So I applied there too.
And not only did they give me the most financial aid, but they gave me the most support and the biggest welcome when I got into the school. So it was a no brainer for me. I lived in SUNY schools, the only school that was not a predominantly black college university that I applied to. I ended up going there for my four years of undergrad, which I majored in psychology and I minored in Community International Development. CFES gave me my start and my foundation, which was the whole purpose of CFES at the time, and I'm quite sure it still is.
So I got to college, and through college, a big part of it was because of the programming through CFES that they gave me.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: So a lot to unpack there, obviously a lot of kind of challenges. But I think one of the things that I picked up was you. You had people in your lives who you can tap into, regardless of whether they had expertise into what you should do next in terms of education.
You had an idea of what you wanted to do. You just needed a little bit of the tools to get there, right? And even when you really considered an institution that was your dream school, at the end of the day, you chose something else because not. It wasn't the whole package for you. And I think that it's so important as we talk to educators and students who might be working with folks in terms of where they want to go next, but it's just not there. You might just need to kind of go a little bit further and kind of explore different opportunities beyond what they're set on.
So I'm sure we can spend a lot more time than the time we have allotted to talk a little bit about other things that kind of impacted your. Your decisions and things like that. But I want to kind of talk a little bit about what you're doing now, Greg, because I know it is connected and I want the audience to learn about those things.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Yes, it's very much connected to the mission. I am currently a dean at a school in Harlem called Kipstar Harlem Elementary College prep program. This is my fourth, going into my fourth or fifth year as a dean. This is my 15th year education.
I like to think I knew I always wanted to work with kids.
If you asked me when I was in middle school, it was. I wanted to be a pediatrician. If you asked me closer to 11th, 12th grade, I wanted to be a child psychologist. It definitely always dealt with children. But I think working with Karen and Rick and Missy and Tara, they definitely gave me the vision in terms of, like, this is like, fulfilling, right? Super fulfilling. So with that, I've been in education for 15 years, and I think that one of the biggest things that has kept me in education is because I know I'm servicing kids and giving them resources that. And tools that they may not have had unless they cross my path. I've had a unique experience, and CFES was very much part of the experience because oftentimes education I think the biggest knock on education, which I agree, is that they do the same thing over and over again, even if it's not the best for the kids.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: I think that what's kept cfes and kept me successful as an educator is because I'm always thinking about what's going to be the next best thing. How can I be innovative as an educator to help the kids and the families that I work with every day. Right. And I think that's what's yielded me so much success. Right. Just being innovative and thoughtful about education.
Education has served me a lot more than that. I've been served for sure.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: I think what you're doing is awesome. And, you know, when you think about educators, men in education, they make a very small portion of the K through 12 population.
And then when you add being African American, I mean, we're looking at less than 2% of black or African American educators in our K through 12 school system.
So there's a lot we can kind of dive into.
I think you mentioned giving back and serving the community. I think that that's important.
So can you maybe share a story about an impact that you feel like African American or black educator has had on you? And I know a couple of stories at least from college, but you can choose from whichever you want.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: University of Vermont. I think that there was so many different ways in which I help others, but it's because of people that helped me. Nick Negrete at UVM1 first people that helped me out got me a job. I needed money, he got me a job. Like within a week of me emailing him, I was on interviews. Whether it was the men of color program, support program that we met up at the Atlanta house on a rest on campus. I think that there was so many. Major Jackson, amazing professor, was my TAP advisor and teacher my first year. Rashad Shabazz, amazing, amazing brother, dear friend, Gabe and mentor. These are just different guys that I watched, right. Whether I got close to them or even if I just watch from afar, I saw the impact that they were making on the college campus. Right. I saw how other men of color like myself were what, you know, like look for and look to and admire and try and get close to these certain men. Right. And it's because they were examples for us.
Right.
Rashad Shabazz was 29 at the time, 30 with the PhD. I think he was the first guy that was. I saw myself in him in terms of super young, still balling. Right. Talking about basketball. Very, very, very much from the inner City from Chicago. He's the first guy that was like, I see myself completely in him. Right. And I didn't have too much of that. Right. Back to your.
What you mentioned in K12 experience.
Maybe one out of my K through 12 experience, but that's when K8, I didn't have any men of color, black men, as my teachers. Not one. So I think that it was super powerful to see these men on campus. And it definitely pushed me to finish. Right. And finish strong.
And in terms of my own works, looking at you, believe it or not, Manny, when you were doing the Discovering UVM program at the admissions office, I definitely was like, oh, that's something I want to do. And if. If I didn't see you doing it, I probably wouldn't. Wouldn't have thought twice about it.
Right. But seeing you just have fun with it and make the experiences fun for these different youth coming from different places every. Every fall, it was like this. I want to do this. Right. And because of you, I was able to apply and. And get the Discovering UVM internship. That. What was it? Discovering UVM was one of the programs, but I was an admissions intern. Yeah. And I interned. After you graduated, I kind of walked into your. Your steps. Right. It took over. And that meant a lot to me. I never told you that, but that meant a lot that I was able to. To take over that.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: You know, thank you for sharing that. I think that. I mean, you've shared some great examples. And I think one of the things that I want to touch base on that I think you talked a little bit about, you know, you mentioned the nickname the Major Jackson and a few others. You know, how do folks like yourself stay in education where you might be one of the few educators in. In your space? Where do you get cultural firming, professional communities and networks? And I think to your point earlier on, starting your own school, what are some of the things that you think you might need to do to kind of get more of a kind of network set up? That way you can get more folks who might look like the students.
I think I want to point out the other thing is you mentioned in your.
Maybe you had one or two black men as educators, and that's you living in Harlem, New York. That's not like in, you know, very rural America, where it might not be the case as you walk around. That's not the case for you. So I know that was a loaded question.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: So. No, you know what? It. When you frame it like that, I never even thought about the location right and being in Harlem because I saw black men all day, every day, just not in school, right? There's not teaching, not leading. I think One of my APs in high school, Mr. Richardson, he was a black. A black guy. But in terms of, like, face to face, everyday interactions with the educator and teacher, no. I'm so thankful for my father, right. Because I had that male influence role model. He gave me a strong foundation. But all of my teachers in elementary, for sure, were women and women of color. So I think it's something that I'm more mindful of even when I hire. I try and hire black men in the elementary world, right?
So right now, all the black men on staff I have either had a hand at hiring in the past couple of years or developing them. I directly manage.
There's legit only a handful, and we probably still may have the most black men within my network.
So it's myself, three, four. Yeah, there's five. And I manage four out of the five black men in this building directly. That's not by mistake. That's by design. That's intentional. I want to be able to put my hands and shape and mold and mentor young men. These young Black men. And really, just the first few years of education can be tough for anyone, right? Teaching is not for the week.
It's not for the week. It was the most humbling experience ever. Like, I've always been successful at everything. I've done everything, even through college.
My first year, my first month of teaching, Teach for America was the most humbling experience ever. I almost. I was like, this is not for me. But it was because it was so difficult. It was so challenging because young people will challenge you. I give that same messaging to these black male teachers. Honestly, if anything else, I put them in a place where it's just community. I want them to be able to flake that they can depend on me and rely on me and come to me if need be, whenever. That's how I try and develop and build up Black men in the hopes that they do the same thing when they leave me. Right. Or if I leave and move on to a different place. And it's tough for someone who, myself, I'm not the most outgoing person. I don't really seek as I should. My wife pushes me all the time to try and seek out other older black men in mentorship.
I think it was easier. I felt safer on campus. It's not as easy for me to have mentors. And one, find them mentors, men of color. Two, talk about Things like what is the process like of opening a school and what are the things I need to do and the steps I need to take. So a lot of it is like me feeling, figuring things out on my own, which you'll. I'll get there eventually. But to have mentorship from others is. It's everything in this world. It is very difficult. Even now I'm on a leadership team. I'm the only black man on a leadership team of women. And it's been like that for my four years.
And nothing, nothing wrong with women. Let me just be clear and say that. But there's nothing to say, say about the demographics, the makeup. Right. And why the men that do come in don't stay very long.
Discussion that's not had enough. Because you get to this wall where especially if you're dealing with women of color, it's like we have our own battles to fight. Right.
So it's like this very fine line you want to walk, but it's still a problem nonetheless in terms of we get that black women are also facing discrimination and so on and so forth. I definitely see day to day they're in a better space in terms of representation, at least in a K through, in the elementary world of education.
So those talks have to happen, like what are we doing to increase the enrollment and hiring of black men and how do we keep them.
Right. Same with our boys.
There's too many young black boys being diagnosed or misdiagnosed with adhd.
Right. And most times it's not a, a man referring these young black boys. Right. It's a woman.
It's too much energy. You know, they don't know how to sit down. Well. Yeah, Typically seven year old boys have a lot of energy.
Right.
So how do we deal with that? It's a issue not just in, in my school, but across the, the country where our young black boys are being diagnosed at high, at early, early levels, at high volumes of adhd. So there's so many different issues that men of color, whether students and or educators are facing. But I think that the biggest thing for me is like community and mentorship go a long way. It always has and always will. And it needs to be, I guess, more organized because the mentorship that happens now for me at least has been more informal. There hasn't been anything set up in any schools that I've been in to where it's like this is a structure, infrastructure in place for men of color to be successful and to be mentored by other men of color. Right. Those things are a rarity and they don't happen.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Well, Greg, this has given us a lot to kind of digest. And I think if you can leave us with one or two kind of key takeaways from your story, your path about how can we help kind of continue push forward this mentorship model in a more. More formal way in schools, Obviously, based on what you share, it shows that it will have great positive impact like it has for yourself. What would those one or two things be?
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Honestly, one of them is simply just more. I don't think there's enough talk about it. I think more ways to have is an open forum and just have dialogue about ways in which we can improve upon the young men of color going to and finishing college or choosing a career pathway. But more importantly, in terms of education educators, we the forum to figure out how can we best support our men of color and develop them into being not only good educators, but just contributing and being good leaders within education.
Right. Oftentimes we get bucketed into like the disciplinarian of the school. Right. And it stays there.
Well, I think the biggest thing is just to have more open forums and discussion in spaces where we can discuss the things that are challenging for men of color, particularly black men in education. So that's one thing I think will be very helpful. I think if I had to choose something else. I think that you guys are already doing it. In terms of the programming that you started with the mentorship through UVM where you selected a group of men. I think that program were to expand into which, let's say there was like a hub, and one of the umbrellas under that hub was education.
I think funneling and purposely placing men who are looking to be educators to schools that have black men to then mentor them would be an amazing, amazing feat. Right. To like, hey, say, hey, Manny, I'm in my junior year of college. I'm going to be an educator. I'm in school for education right now.
Can you connect me with someone that can mentor me while I'm still in college and post college to where maybe I can get a job working with them in their school? Right. And get mentorship from them directly.
Right. That would be an amazing, amazing program. Even if it starts with a group of 10, 20 young men. Right.
I think that starting small and of course as the program expands, it'll naturally expand itself. But I think starting something like that small would be an amazing program. Had I had something like that, I think I would have found my grounding earlier. It took me about three years to really find my footing education.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Greg, I know the answer to that hypothetical question. I'm going to direct them to you.
You're going to be the mentor and they can do this kind of work at the school that you're going to be the founding principal at the Blueprint location. Tbd. Right. But that's, that's where we're going to place them. And I really appreciate you bringing up the program, the Young Men of Talent program. That is one of the ways in which as an organization, we're looking to get more men in education.
Not to just get them in education, higher education, but also help them create and expand their professional networks through a very intentional networking opportunities that we do. So, Greg, I want to thank you and I want to be mindful of your time. I know you have other responsibilities.
Thank you so much for joining us today on today's episode. And we look forward to continuing our conversation in the future. So until next time, support for this podcast comes from Brilliant Pathways, an organization that had spent over 30 years helping students make opportunities happen.
Connect with us wherever you get your podcasts. And thank you for joining us on the Blueprint. I'm Manny Tejeda, your host, and I'll see you next time.
